Tuesday, March 1, 2016

Lies. All Lies.

Below...  my current wallpaper on my work computer.  A coworker saw it yesterday and said, excitedly, "That's from Prometheus!"
You can imagine how irritated and irritating I must have sounded as I informed him that this was, in fact, from 1979's ALIEN and that it was, in fact, not a blue humanoid Engineer in a spacesuit, but, rather, the most significant film prop in our lifetime.  And clearly an alien life form due to the size differential and strange proportions.

I blame Ridley Scott for this mess.

And now he's messing with the Blade Runner sequel.


Jay's Shadow said...

Coworkers are SO annoying.

Rot said...

Imagine what they think about me.

Jay's Shadow said...


girl6 said...

awwwwww...yeah, it's rough when you feel like something you worship with your love is being messed with. no matter tho (pretty much) i'll always be a ridley fan, i love him so much for doing the right thing & including dan o'bannon as an art/acting director for alien. i can imagine so many directors taking the bitch road & just ignoring o'bannon & giving him NO say whatsover on HIS own creation even. just totally squashing him like a bug!

ridley's art school & bbc designer days always show themselves to me, i always feel em, even tho he's become a pretty big director. he's got that art school boy thing goin on...might explain a lot actually.

i think you should pen your feelings to Ridley, i think he would be at least interested to hear your feelings, might even make ya feel a little better too, just to get it out there..<3

Rot said...

Imagine that strange ranting letter about space jockeys and Engineers and Aliens and things that never existed.

The Gill-Man said...

I'm somewhat reserving judgement on whether or not I consider Prometheus "Canon" or not until I see the sequel. There were a lot of things I loved about the film...but also things I didn't care for (the Space Jockey being a suit? No...No, I don't like that at all). Hoping Ridley's sequel connects some of those dots...that we witness the master being behind the Engineers...and discover those suits were modeled after HIS biology.

Rot said...

just watched that vid you sent.
absolutely loved it.
Argento would swoon.

Autumnleaf said...

I think great films are a matter of timing. Let them stay in their own time. Like revolutions.

Willow Cove said...

I clearly remember back in high school a friend had an Alien comic and one volume had a background on the pilot. And it was an alien with a proboscis trunk. Yeah, don't mess with the origional.

girl6 said...

i wonder how these directors really feel when they're being honest with themselves. i guess it is different from director to director. but, idk. like i know at the end of the day it could be said, it's just a job for them. either way, whether these changes are being made outta pure love or being made outta pure numbers & marketing (or whatever) well then they're failing poorly at "the job thing". it's poor customer service. i know it's art & it's someone's vision but, you can't give & then just take it away like it doesn't mean anything. these guys are catch 22s, they tell on themselves all the time.

Rot...glad you enjoyed the vid.
it's was on an open page, so i didn't think they would mind it being shared with fans.

Rot said...

yeah. That would be interesting. Like for Spielberg to come back to Close Encounters and do a sequel that makes the aliens not aliens but humans from Earth's future or something like that would be sacrilege to me. And probably to him too.
Eh..maybe that's a bad example.
I guess this is like lucas making THE FORCE those mediclorian (sp?) things? Like he took something magical that we ALL could have in us or channel through us and made it something that we're born with...like eye color. Magic-Removed.

girl6 said...

because i think something happens to (most of) them when the gifts they give us go viral & are loved by the masses. they forget. they're like, magic???? they think they themselves are the magic. they don't dream anymore, they just want to drag their "godly" asses back to the original font of magic & contaminate it, hoping to outdo themselves. it's like it becomes a careless contest to them. they steal our hearts & then they BREAK em. love is a 2 way street. but for them, it's a ONE way, straight ahead.

remember when Spielberg,,, wanted to do that tonal change thing with ET? he turned the guns into walkie talkies & wanted to make the government seem sweeter? was that because of the watergate thing that went down? with informing the family of the government? did spielberg's attitude toward the government soften? so i guess he wanted to go back & change everything? wanted it all to be nice...nice. the fans called FOUL & fussed. so he lost his nerve & didn't make the changes. he really made me sad, with EVEN just the thought of making those changes. my heart is chilly in his direction.

Rot said...

I forgot about that stuff with E.T.
God..what a horrid mistake.

Autumnleaf said...

Hmm...@ girl6. You bring up a very good point. Tweekage always seems to be retro. I still think there's something to be said to leaving things encapsulated. At least the magic stays there with them. I don't think these treasures should be forgotten at all but they need to inspire new magic. Don't go back and apply today's standards/politics to existing past treasures. Make a new gem, one that fits in the present but builds on past legacies. Yeah, and there are those empowered ones who only see the profit in the magic, and don't have a clue of how to create it (sorry, my own stuff}.

girl6 said...

Right On Autumnleaf!!.
you know..directors wanna be called artists & i'm cool with that, but i'm not cool with, when a fan doesn't like the changes being made to a classic that has become sorta immortal & only due to a fan's LOVE which results in tons of loot being made. AND then...the director will say something like, "get a life, it's my job"....grrrrr

it's been said..that if an actual re.cut consisted of being played upside down, backwards etc & made $$$$ upon release, it would most definitely be put out there for sale & all would be fine with hollywood...yeah, artists?..hmmm..questionable.

here's a few thoughts on re-cuts & $$$.
i think the beginning, may have been with orson welles, directing "touch of evil" (wonderful film btw) orson left the studio to go away & direct another film. he left exacting instructions for all the finishing touches to be made on the film with the studio. of course, the instructions were never carried out, the studio made THEIR own changes & the film was released without orson's instructions being met nor his approval. when orson returned, he even sent a memo to the studio, stating what he wanted changed...NO go. the movie was released. years later, it was decided to follow orson's original instructions/memo & to re.release "touch of evil" hoping to finally release what orson REALLY wanted. it made TONs of cash soooo "let's re.cut everything"!!!!

terry gilliam has said something like, "once a movie is re.cut & re.released it is a NEW MOVIE"...it's NO longer the same movie whatsover...look at 'blade runner" in all of it's different bodies. ALL different movies, it is no longer a movie that was made in 1982. i've heard dick donner, touch on this thought as well when he has talked about "superman" over the yrs.

neil gaiman..whom i absolutely adore & believe is incapable of creating anything less than perfect, has said.."no one (fans) will tell me what to put into my books---it's MY art". i have no problem with that, because it's the Original, i have the problem with everything horribly ever after that happens to the original. yeah, changing the Masterpiece that fans love & put on the map is just wrrrrrong.

hey john ford had a great remedy for the suits trying to screw ya over. he had such a sense of editing that he was able to ONLY shoot the bare minimum, so his films could only be edited ONE way, HIS way. yep. NO extra shots or footage...hahahaha...cool man.

brian de palma...LOVE him SO much..he won't shoot coverage either. he totally doesn't believe in it. he says, "there's ONLY one way & that's it".

& ridley scott...hahahaha...he cracks me up..he tells soooo many different stories. i think he believes them all too. he's cute tho & honestly funny too, i remember him saying, "i have 2 movies in the national registry & i STILL have to explain myself"...hahaha. but, hey, he's crazy & was sucha gentleman to dan o'bannon, so i WILL always always love him for that, it was the right thing to do, the only thing to do & he did it cause he wanted to, not cause he had to..<333333

i love movies..i love directors..i have a lot of respect for them..cause Lord knows, when even..you're on the up & up, it must be SO VERY HARD to make a movie. to bring it all together into one vision. i mean man, with the crap that comes into play, you probably don't want to even get outta bed some days, just to catch grief from everyone. sighh...it's a catch 22 for me too, i don't wanna beat up on someone's art, but then, sometimes i'm not happy either soooo.

The Gill-Man said...

Actually, girl6, Spielberg DID make those changes...they were on the original DVD release of ET, along with the "restored" scene of ET in the bathtub (the original scene was cut, because the water caused the animatronics in the ET puppet to short out. Spielberg inserted the scene using a CGI ET). His reasoning for removing the guns was that he felt that it made the scenes too "scary" for children. It should be notede also digitally erased the reflection of the cobra on the plexiglas in "Raiders".

The fan outcry over him tampering with his films was similar to the reaction Star Wars fans had to Lucas tinkering with the original trilogy, but the difference is that Spielberg actually listened. When the Indiana Jones series and ET were both being prepped for release on Blu Ray, Spielberg announced that they would only be the theatrical editions, and that he wouldn't alter any more of his films.

Personally, I don't have a problem with a director releasing an alternate cut of a film...so long as the original version is ALSO available. Ridley Scott's various cuts of Blade Runner all have merit, and I'm happy that he's made them all available to fans. That is the proper way to do it.

All that having been said, the issue that Rot addresses here is a different one...because Prometheus is a retcon of sorts to Alien. It defines something that was previously a detail left to the imagination, and thus robs it of its mystique. The upside to this, if there is one, is that this retcon is made in a completely different film that the viewer can choose to ignore if they wish. I like Prometheus as a film...but not as a prequel to Alien (if that makes any sense). I think there are a lot of beautiful moments in the movie, and I think the plot itself is interesting, but I don't like that it attempts to clarify those moments in Alien that set our imaginations running in the first place. We don't NEED to see the backstory of the Space Jockey, because in our minds we already came up with one...and it was way better than Prometheus!

Unknown said...

I'm convinced that as directors get older, they too often lose their 'punch'. What it was that made them so popular to begin with - that zest and grit; and the dedication they had to their craft... Anymore, I feel like there should be mandatory retirement after age 60. Oy. (But then I DID enjoy The Martian, so what do I know?)

Just keep Ridley Scott away from my Alien film, dammit.

girl6 said...

YES..The Gill-Man..Spielberg DID make those changes for the BIG Anniversary Release of ET. ($$$$$) & YES, of course the original version is still available as well ($$$$$) & AS MUCH AS i would LOVE to be the only one who ? his reasoning, as to why he tampered with ET at all ($$$$), but, Unfortunately i cannot do so. changed for kids?....hmmmmm....so EVEN more $$$$ could possibly be made. i DO often wonder what his conversations with his bestie Georgie (i won't kiss em & he still makes me cry all the time) Lucas sound like?...hahahahahhaha. i think the both of them, must really think, we ALL take our heads off at night, place them upon ours bureaus & put them back on in the morning. Spielberg has NO edge. Duel was SO promising tho, but that was a lonnnnng time ago. Poor things..Spielberg has NO balls & Georgie is ALL Ball. i cry.

oh & i don't think i got the memo either..that one's thoughts (Rot's for example) could not entice others to have thoughts that would branch off of the original post. i thought i was having a moment with Autumnleaf & Rot.

p.s...movies & changes made to them...DO reflect the times.
EX...The Original Poltergeist has the whole Unhappiness with the Reagan Era running thru it...sorry, but it's fact..Movies are time capsules.

The Gill-Man said...

Oh, girl6, I wasn't implying you couldn't branch off from the topic...I was enjoying it actually! I totally agree with you that Lucas and Spielberg have squandered the promise they had as young directors, and I'll go a step farther by stating that I believe their younger selves would HATE the men they've become!

Also, to clarify, I wasn't trying to justify changes to films, just that it bothers me far less when it is done in the way that Scott did with Blade Runner, where he made all versions available. I completely understand when a director is forced to make changes to a film why he would want his preferred cut released...and I have no problem with that. I just ask that they keep the original version available, because once a film is released it is no longer *just* the director's. The audience feels ownership as well.

I also completely agree that films act as time capsules (and Poltergeist is a perfect example). Going back and changing things years after the fact seems to me a fruitless exercise, as those changes tend to stand out like a sore thumb...hard not to notice the CGI crap inserted into a movie made in the 70's or 80's!!!

Anyway, I didn't mean to seem like I was complaining or being argumentative with you, and I apologize profusely if I came across that way. I just got pulled into your discussion. I quite like your contributions to Rot's threads, and enjoy discussing things with folks like you!

girl6 said...

Hi G.Man..i really appreciate your apology & kind words. i apologize to you as well for misunderstanding what you were trying to express. & i also want to thank you for discussing this with me, it will help me to be become a better listener in general.

spielberg & lucas haven't felt much like home to me in ages. i had forgotten how much i really dug them at one point. i guess, i feel like, they have moved on from their fans soooooo long ago & i guess i have done the same with them.

anyways...Nice meeting you on here & i look forward to reading all your future recommendations thoughts etc.. : )